Another blog post in the category “The incredible life of (non UK) EU citizens in the UK” (Part 1 here)
Imagine you are a Belgian citizen and you just turned 27. You move to the UK to do research at one of the leading universities. So far so good. Thanks to EU legislation, there are no problems getting your previous qualifications recognised. Although the UK is not member of Schengen it is enough to present a ID card at the border to enter the country. Obviously you do not need a visa or a passport. Anyway most of EU citizens just carry their ID cards with them, some do not even have passports and, anyway, we tend to store our passports at home in the cupboard in case we travel to weird destinations next summer. So what can possibly go wrong with living in the UK you might ask?
Well, although you are 27 you might look younger than 25 which can be a problem (although this is hard to imagine!) So on any given Wednesday you pop into your local Sainsbury’s to buy a bottle of wine. (For those of you who have been in the UK you might be aware of a small alcohol problem regarding under-age drinking…) Since the shop assistant thinks you look under 25 (in normal circumstances this is a compliment!) she asks for a proof of identity as the shop policy requires her to check everyone who looks under 25 whether he or she is over 18.
First, you might be a bit surprised as you did not expect this question. But, thanks to old habits you carry your Belgian ID card with you and present it to the shop assistant. After all it is one of the most advanced ID cards in Europe and does not look like a library card.
“Sorry we do not accept ID cards – only passports and British driving licenses” the shop assistant informs you. Your reply: “But in the alcohol department I saw a poster with all means of identification – including ID cards” (which is of course rather funny as there are no UK ID cards yet…) – “Sorry, no exceptions.” she answers. “I can show you the poster if you want?” But she clarifies ”We do not accept ID cards!” – “But this is my national ID card issued by the Belgian state and you can see here that I am 27 years old” – “Sorry, I cannot accept it!”
So, why do we have ID cards (ID is short for identity document!!) if this is still happening in the EU? Why is the ID accepted to enter the country, to open a UK bank account, to vote in local UK and European elections. Probably you can even open your own supermarket – but it is really not accepted to proof your age in a supermarket? Is it discrimination? Well, as the branch manager of Sainsbury’s explained later: “Discriminatory behavior would include different prizes for UK citizens and foreign citizens…but the supermarket can decide what kind of ID it accepts”
I am not convinced! And I would feel discriminated against. I think this is ridiculous and I wonder whether there is any EU/national legislation which could be used in this case…I still hope this was a decision of a couple of stubborn employees and not the official company policy….
And just to make it clear: This really happened (!), however, luckily there are other supermarkets and the evening eventually included a bottle of wine!
English shop assistants were/are famous for being unable to accept Scottish or Northern Irish sterling notes. They don’t even know they exist. I wouldn’t take it personally. Just take your money elsewhere next time.
I didn’t know that an ID card was enough to cross the Schengen line.
@Coleman
These new identity cards are pretty sophisticated, with security features absent in old passports.
@Kosmopolit
In principle, all discrimination on grounds of nationality is prohibited in the internal market, but easier than going to court would be to a) ask discriminating companies to place visible posters at the entrance of their discriminatory practices (to save people time), and b) for people to spread the word (as you have done), and c) for smart customers to shop elsewhere (as Coleman suggested).
@Sainsbury
Do you hear us?
@UK government and media
Why not educate your public, including businesses? Great for tourism etc.
Although the Lisbon Treaty means that the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels can make whatever rules they like, so far the member states of the EU can set their own internal ID rules. Except that if one member state declares a certain document to be valid ID for its citizens, every other state must also recognise that document. But this requirement is only mandated on the state, not on businesses. In effect, Sainsburys can set their own rules legally. As the manager pointed out, the only thing they cannot do is discriminate. This raises an interesting question. If the British ID card is successful (unlikely, but bear with me) then it is arguable that it would be discriminatory for them to accept UK ID cards, but not those of other countries.
There is a major problem here. It is tough for workers to know what valid locally issued ID looks like. Distinguishing, say, a valid Czech ID card from a fake, could be very challenging. An alternative would be to train staff to recognise under age people by looking at them, instead of their ID. (The state of Oregon requires all those serving alcohol to do this.) But then, when did a shop assistant last look at a customer in Sainsburys.
By the way, English shop assistants do not have to accept Scottish or Northern Irish notes because they are not legal tender in England and Wales. Bank of England notes are legal tender throughout the UK.
@ Simon Evans
European identity cards, including security features, are standardised. Makes it easier for workers and businesses – at least the smarter ones.
Sainsbury's does not accept ID cards!? – Kosmopolito: Well, although you are 27 you might look younger than.. http://bit.ly/6L6568
RT @kosmopolit Blogged about life in the #UK, #Sainsburys and #IDcards @kosmopolito http://ow.ly/LdEa
Fab piece by @kosmopolit about UK identity card stupidities http://tr.im/HN3i If it's any solace my NHS doctor didn't like my diving license
Sort of in reply to Bethany – would have been *very* funny if they thought Kosmopolit was under 18…
This also made me think of this story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/oct/11/morrisons-wine-ban-mother
A mother was prevented from buying wine because her 17 year old daughter was shopping with her!
same thing happened to yet another Belgian friend of mine. Her ID was not accepted to get a Railcard … only passports! The stupid station manager has probably never been in continental Europe.
RT @kosmopolito: Sainsbury’s does not accept ID cards!? – Kosmopolito http://bit.ly/68YTXE ID insanities #idcards
The same happened to me in Ireland, in a TESCO! I’m Hungarian and they required my passport, which I, of course, did not have on me. They told me that it was due to a resolution of the Irish government. I then reminded them of the immediate applicability of the EU law, but it did not seem to have any effect. Since then I’ve been thinking about writing a letter to the customers’ rights commissioner but haven’t done it yet. But it’s good to know that I’m not alone with this problem.
well what can i say i am a fellow Belgian and i must say the ignorance is massive i got told yesterday that the Belgian ID is not part of the EU …!!!! Beat that so now were not part of the EU according to some Ignorant Manager in an office………. that was the highlight of my day… i accept that one has not seen an id but to state Belgium is not part of it they obviously are secluded and live in a box……………..
Hi there, i am a Sainsbury’s employee as a cashier and checkout supervisor. And no matter how much i hate working there, I’ve have never heard anything so crazy as this! Of course Sainsbury’s accepts ID Cards! As far as i know, we accept:
For UK residence: Citizen Card, Portmans’ Proof of age card, cards cards displayed on the The National Proof of Age Standards Scheme website, UK Drivers Licence and UK passports.
For non UK residence: Original Passport of the country you reside, Drivers licence and National ID of the country you reside in.
As long as the ID is Valid (within the valid from and valid to dates) and has not been tampered with in any way, it should be ok.
May i ask, did u ask to talk to a manger about this incident?
I don’t know whether my fried talked to the manager at this particular incident or whether he was so shocked that he just left the shop.
And I know this is not the official Sainsbury’s policy which would indeed be a scandal. But the problem seems to exist as some of the other comments revealed. And this is not a Sainsbury’s problem as it happens in other shops as well. The question is why that happens. Is it because the employees are not properly trained or because they fear harsh consequences if they make a mistake? Or is it something else?
The consequences are quite harsh, if anyone is caught selling age restricted products (alcohol, knives, games, dvd’s) to anyone under the required age, you have the risk of an 1) on-the-spot fine, 2) disciplinary action possibly leading to dismissal 3) criminal record. The licence holder (one of the managers in the store) may also face the same/similar consequences as he is also kept responsible along with the staff who made the illegal sale. So yes, there is a lot of pressure, and most people don’t want to get close to risking it so they become really hesitant on deciding what to accept.
I have also had a problem with ID at the Sainsburys in Oxford City Centre (Westgate). I have been using my New Zealand Drivers Licence as ID to buy alcohol since I entered the UK nearly 2 years ago. Last weekend all of a sudden it was not valid ID at this particular store. The check out staff was really rude including bitching (there is no better word) with thier check out supervisor about someone who had given the ’stick’ about this policy last week. They would not even answer me when I asked when the policy had changed. I finally got the answer ‘about 2 weeks ago’. I left and went to M & S down the road where they didn’t even ask for ID. Is there not a standard rule throughout the UK for what ID is accepted? I can’t find anything on the internet that will tell me. I am not carrying my passport around in case I would like to borrow a bottle of wine as I ahve already had the Home Office hold onto it for 1 year (whilst sitting on my residence card application) and had Royal Mail loose it when they were on strike. Can anyone tell me exactly what the Government says about what ID is acceptable?
Sorry by borrow I mean buy! Freudian slip!